Helping women of faith find hope and healing after emotional and spiritual abuse

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Bonus Episode Two Transcript

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Hi. This is Natalie Hoffman of Flyingfreenow.com, and you’re listening to the Flying Free Podcast, a support resource for women of faith looking for hope and healing from hidden emotional and spiritual abuse.

Welcome to Bonus Episode Number Two of the Flying Free Podcast. Today, Bob and Polly Hamp of Think Differently Academy and I get together and talk about a conference that we’re putting on (actually, I’m not putting it on; they’re putting it on) in Hearst, TX on January 24-26. In this interview we talk about the different sessions that we’re going to be doing there and what the conference is about. It’s called Reclaim. It’s not really about abuse per se. It’s more about reclaiming your life post abuse. Whether you have been emotionally, physically, sexually, spiritually, or financially abused, this conference is for you. Space is limited. There are only two hundred spots. I believe this is going to be an absolutely phenomenal, life-changing conference for every single woman who goes. We’re going to get started, but first I wanted to say that this episode of the Flying Free Podcast is sponsored by the private Flying Free Education and Support Community, which offers courses, workshops, live coaching and more for women of faith seeking hope and healing from emotionally and spiritually abusive relationships and communities. You can find out more at joinflyingfree.com. Let’s get to our show.

NATALIE:  Welcome, Bob and Polly. I’m so glad you could join me today. Bob, you’re a repeat visitor on the Flying Free Podcast.

BOB:  Yes. You need to introduce your people to Polly.

NATALIE:  Yes! Then this is Polly, Bob’s – I was going to say Bob’s husband – Bob’s wife. You guys are kind of newlyweds, aren’t you?

BOB:  We’ll be three years this coming March.

POLLY:  Yeah.

BOB:  So newlywedish.

POLLY:  Still newlyweds.

BOB:  But three years flies.

NATALIE:  It really does. My husband and I just celebrated our second, but I feel like we just met. It’s so weird. Bob, I don’t know if you know this, but your podcast episode was the first one I ever did, but it is also the most downloaded podcast episode. I just found that out recently from my statistics. So we’re glad to have you back.

BOB:  I didn’t not know that. I’m thrilled about that. I’m so glad to be back. I got to know you because somebody else told me, that had counseled a conference somewhere, quoted me and then later handed me your book and said, “You’re in here.”

NATALIE:  Yes. Well, that was from your infamous Facebook class that you were teaching. I found it and it just blew my mind. I told everyone I knew, “You have to watch this Facebook class. I don’t know who this guy is, but you’ve got to watch this.” You had a way of talking about the victim and the perpetrator that I had never really heard framed that way. It was mind blowing. That’s how we all found you, and now we’re really excited.

BOB:  Our video, the one you quoted from Facebook live, has more views than any other video except Polly’s video on suicide.

POLLY:  Yeah.

NATALIE:  Okay.

BOB:  People who are looking for a voice and they finally find it, it comes like food to the hungry.

POLLY:  Yeah, and water to the soul that has been dry and grasping for “Does anybody understand?” It makes you feel crazy. When you give voice to it, it’s like, “Wait. Maybe I’m not crazy.”

BOB:  Quite honestly. I was thinking about that teaching and the conference – I didn’t want to teach about that stuff. In the same way that Polly doesn’t want to teach about suicide, and in the same way that you probably don’t want to lead a group for people recovering from stuff, we all kind of got dragged into this by circumstances that we didn’t want and didn’t wish for. We find ourselves speaking up about things that we’ve gone through and want to give a voice to, and suddenly we find out there’s a lot of people who want to hear that voice.

POLLY:  Exactly.

NATALIE:  Yes. I definitely didn’t want this job. But now that we have it, it’s actually very fulfilling.

BOB:  Hugely fulfilling.

NATALIE:  I’ve noticed that survivors often want to take their experience and they want to make something good out of it. They want to turn it into something beautiful. One of those ways is by reaching out and helping someone else through it.

POLLY:  Exactly, yes.

NATALIE:  Okay, well speaking of that, that’s a great segue into our topic for today. A few months ago, Bob, you contacted me with an idea. Do you want to tell us about that?

BOB:  Yeah, and it actually has to do with that dragged kicking and screaming thing. The more our conversations – mine and yours, Natalie, and mine and Polly’s – the more that video and the second one I taught on spiritual abuse gained traction, I realized the hunger and the need for people to have that voice back. This morning I was also thinking that your voice is your connection between your inside you and the world around you. When you lose your voice, you lose both of those things. You lose your connection to the world around you, and you lose a sense of who you are. When you find your voice, it is more than just the ability to say things. You find your life again. In those conversations and in realizing how many people come flocking to your ministry and to the things that we’ve taught about it, we wondered what it would be like to put together a conference to help people take some next steps, to not just be caught in the conversation about abuse itself but all of us to some degree are trying to get our life back – the life we thought we would have or the life we had before. We talked about it. Then after you and I did that podcast, we talked about what it would be like to have you do that with us because there seems to be such an overlap. That led to the reach out to you where I asked, “Would you be interested and willing to come down here and do a conference?” You are learning from us that we do conferences very organically. We didn’t have the full schedule in mind. We just had an idea and wanted to invite you to help co-create that idea.

POLLY:  Yeah.

NATALIE:  The interesting thing is that this is my first gig. I did one breakout session for Leslie Vernick’s Conquer Conference a couple of years ago. But other than that, I’ve not done a conference like this. So I have no expectations. I’m just having fun flying by the seat of my pants. It’s interesting because this last year I really felt God was laying on my heart that one of the things I needed to start doing in 2020 is getting out there and meeting people face-to-face. I thought, “I’d love to do some speaking, but I don’t know how to do that.” Then you guys contacted me, and it was very much a confirmation of what I felt God had laid on my heart. There is one other lady who has kind of a wedding venue in Vermont. She is doing something very different from you guys, but where she just has fifteen women get together for a very intimate kind of a gathering. She asked me to come speak at that. So these two conferences are a great way for me to break into it and write my material. I learned how to do Keynote. I learned how to do that, so you can teach an old dog new tricks if you force them to.

POLLY:  It’s true!

NATALIE:  So I am so excited to get to talk face-to-face with people that I’ve gotten to know online – and you two in particular. I love the topic of this conference too. Talk about what it is called and what the purpose of it is.

BOB:  Let me quickly say (ask me the question again if I don’t return to it) the idea that you need to get out and meet some people – one of the sessions I will actually teach at this conference will be on the brain. There are elements of our healing process that have the necessity of connection. Even though there is an element of communication we can do via social media – watching the videos and through a screen like this – the real work of the limbic system, the real work of the chemistry of the brain that brings the restoration of connection – takes place face-to-face.

NATALIE:  Wow!

BOB:  You can reach out and hug someone or you can have eye contact with someone. I’ll teach a session on far more than that, but the part of reclaiming your mind – not your mind necessarily but your brain – there really is something to that face-to-face – the ability to reach out and put a hand on someone you’ve been talking to through a screen, the ability to really hear the voice not electronically but from vocal chords to ears – that can do things for the brain that can’t happen online.

POLLY:  Yeah. I agree.

NATALIE:  That’s very intriguing. I’m excited to hear that.

BOB:  So we both use this one session with our clients quite a bit. It both helps them with things like shame but also helps them know how to more deeply engage in their healing process.

POLLY:  And it really gives language to what is going on inside of you. So when you are trapped in that flight, fight, or freeze and you think, “Why can’t I connect and why can’t I get out of this?” it helps you put words to what it truly going on inside of you. It’s like, “Oh, okay. So this is happening.” If I can do my grounding techniques, if I can move into some places where I am connecting even just to self and then to God, it changes how you view yourself, so it’s not so covered in shame. It’s actually freeing to go, “Oh, I’m not screwed up and broken. This is actually physiological.”

BOB:  You’re in the wrong part of the brain.

POLLY:  I’m using the wrong part of my brain. It’s a very freeing teaching and a way to understand what is going on with me when you go into those scared states.

NATALIE:  As you are talking, I am thinking that one of the things that has broken all of us is the lack of validation. It’s the other people in our lives that were not letting us be seen, that were not mirroring us back to ourselves in our true selves – they were mirroring this distorted version. Then when you stand up and stick up for yourself, they walk from you. So it leaves you feeling … That shame is profound and deep, and it leaves you feeling like there is something seriously wrong with me.

BOB:  Yeah, it’s so tempting to do that.

NATALIE:  The way to heal that would be the exact opposite happening – someone coming and validating you, listening to you, caring about you, believing you, and reflecting your experience back.

BOB:  Yeah. And it is far more than it just feels good. Trauma and abuse changes brain chemistry and changes brain function. So connection and validation can change that brain function and brain chemistry back.

NATALIE:  Wow!

BOB:  It is genuinely biological, and it is genuine healing. It’s not just comfort. It’s transformation.

NATALIE:  Yes.

POLLY:  Yes. So really, I think that is the foundation going back to your question, “What is the conference called?” It is “Reclaim.” It’s really the foundation of us understanding what is really happening to us in the context of abuse and in the context of the crazy feeling of thinking, “I am so broken and shattered. But how do I get out of this?” The conference isn’t, like what you said at the beginning, it isn’t about abuse. It’s about reclaiming our identity. It’s about reclaiming our true self and our hearts and realizing that we don’t have to stay stuck in the broken, but we’re not going to ignore what the broken did to us. How do we start piecing the parts together but finding who we truly are? Sometimes abuse has been so integrated since the day we were born or even before we were born in the womb that it gets so tied around it becomes part of your full experience. Some of us … When I sit in front of my clients and they say, “I don’t even know who I am to piece back together.” But you were not designed … there is nothing broken about your design. It’s in that, “Then what?” Reclaim is that, “Now what?” Even if I still have all these broken pieces, to say, “There is more ahead of me.” There is more to reclaim about who I am and get to discover the truth, get to put new language to things, and get to discover this is how my brain works, and to know, “I’m not screwed up. It’s physiological.” It is such freeing information. I love your Flying Free! I love it so much. And your book – Is it Me? I love that question. It’s asking, “Am I crazy?” I always say, “Yeah, we are crazy but let’s call it good crazy because we are.” This conference is about really stepping into … Even if reclaiming my life right now seems so far out there – that it can happen, no matter what stage you are in this freedom process.

BOB:  One of the things I said, and I don’t remember if it was in our podcast or our video that we did, I said that one of my concerns is that sometimes we can separate our abuse experience from our overall freedom journey. Once we do that, we make a shift from what the counselor would call “solution focused” to “problem focused,” and our abuse begins to dominate the answer to the question, “Who am I?” Part of the reclaimed process, as Polly is saying, is we want to turn our attention to – yes, you may have had a car wreck, bodies strewn across the road, and you may have lost a limb. But there is still a tomorrow; and there is still another year; and there are still future relationships. You are going to put life back together. We want this conference to be as much as we can give and you can give steps, stages, ways of thinking, perspective thinking differently about …

POLLY:  And fun.

BOB:  How to get tomorrow back and how to get next year back.

NATALIE:  Yes! I love that. The idea of reframing things is so important because when you just described the accident you can reframe that in a way that is post-accident. You are a different person, but you can be a different person in a better way. All our experiences are designed to build us up and continue to mold us. It’s like the butterfly imagery again. You go into this cocoon. I just found this out. I didn’t even know this. But apparently, it turns into a mixture of goo and then it reforms itself into a butterfly. I didn’t know that, but I thought that is just one more piece. You go into this cocoon and you turn into goo and it seems like that is a bad thing. No! That’s part of what makes you – turns that caterpillar into a butterfly. So that accident, that abuse – whatever that thing was that happened to you – that is part of what God used to create this beautiful creature that can fly and enjoy and live life and have relationship in a deep and profound way that the person would not have been able to experience had they not turned into that goo.

POLLY:  Yeah.

BOB:  Do you know Polly’s story yet?

NATALIE:  I know bits and pieces of it.

BOB:  The butterfly has particular imagery for her.

POLLY:  Yeah, very much so.

BOB:  I’ll say the short version, unless you want to.

POLLY:  Okay. Go ahead. You’re good at shorter.

NATALIE:  You’ll have to give me the long version on the phone some time.

BOB:  If I talk about me, it’s going to be long.  The short version is the abuse in Polly’s life started very early. It started very early in her life – age three.

POLLY:  That’s the earliest I can remember.

BOB:  For years that kind of stuff went on. Then, as often happens, she went through years where she reproduced that abuse in her life through her own choices. For a short season of her life was involved in the sex industry, and then found the LORD. The LORD found her. Then years ago – how long ago?

POLLY:  Gosh. 2010, so nine years ago.

BOB:  Nine years ago she started a ministry to reach back into the sex industry to help those women leave. For all of the women who came to the meetings, they were all called butterflies.

POLLY:  To protect their names and their identity (because the whole world of the industry) but they were all called butterflies because of that transformational notion.

NATALIE:  I love that.

POLLY:  Our whole mentoring program was developed around the four stages of the butterfly.

NATALIE:  Wow! That is incredible.

POLLY:  It was awesome.

BOB:  She’s been advocating for abuse victims far longer than I have.

NATALIE:  Wow, you guys make a great team then. That’s awesome. It’s another way of seeing that God’s hand really is at work. That is a great segue into the next part and the last section that I want to do here. I want to talk a little bit about what we will each be talking about in our sessions. I think we’re each doing four sessions still.

BOB:  Four to five. I still haven’t finalized the weekend schedule. I think in the last session all three of us will get up and do like a panel discussion. So at least four sessions.

POLLY:  Yes.

NATALIE:  I love that. So I’ll say here, because this fits in, two of my sessions are going to be about reclaiming your faith or reclaiming God. I’ve been reading a lot of different books recently, and one of the things I have realized just this week is that the god that I worshipped was an abuser god. The god that I grew up with …

BOB:  That is strong.

NATALIE:  To me, it was like a huge … You know how you have a lightbulb moment and it just shifts everything in your life. That for me this week was one of those moments. It helped me to realize because … On Twitter, I hear a lot of people are deconstructing their faith. Some are walking away from the faith. But the thing I realized is that this is good! This is a good thing. They are walking away from an abuser god! Now they can find the real God. I pray that they do, but even if they don’t in this lifetime, I believe that the real God is finding them. The real God is with them. He is with us. He is with us on this journey. We are children. We get to rest. We get to play. We get to enjoy. We don’t have to be scared that we’re going to fall and make a mistake and God is going to be the abuser god who whips us back into shape. This is the God of the prodigal son – the father. This is Jesus Christ. Anyway, I want two of my sessions to be about that. I wrote one …

BOB:  I hope you get some passion about that.

NATALIE:  This is, I think, one of the lynch pins to our healing.

BOB:  Sometimes I think we separate our abuse recovery from our freedom journey. You’re going to take them right back to “This is about you finding who God really is and therefore finding who you really are.” So I’m excited about those sessions.

NATALIE:  So those are two of my sessions. Tell me a little bit about what you guys are going to talk about.

POLLY:  I’m going to talk about the strongholds that happen and the beliefs and the lies that get attached to the abuse and some tools that really help understand the pattern that we stay stuck in. Then not just understanding it but having a picture of what it looks like to release those strongholds. There are some steps you can take to say, “Oh, I recognize this,” and then what is the truth and really navigating the stronghold aspect and beliefs that get wedged in or grown bigger. I’ve got beliefs from when I was little that then get reinforced later by other situations. Maybe it’s my situation or something that I ended up doing because I presented a false self. So really talking through that. Also, keeping my verse that I’ve had since the ministry I started – Christ’s love was not cautious but extravagant. Love like that. It’s Ephesians 5:2. It’s paraphrased. It’s out of The Message. But it talks about extravagant love. Then how you keep a loving heart after abuse. So really sticking on that topic and asking, “How do we stay soft? How do we not harden to the world that has tried to consume us? How do we love extravagantly even when it hurts?” But love isn’t being a doormat – the whole boundaries thing. Love isn’t reconciliation with abusive people. Love is loving yourself enough to set boundaries. Love is setting boundaries with those that are also operating out of a false self. So taking on those topics and having fun with it because healing is freaking hard. It’s hard. Brené Brown quotes, “Embrace the suckiness.” You know it’s going to suck, but so does staying stuck. That rhymes.

NATALIE:  I love that. Maybe that could be a theme for something. It’s going to suck …

POLLY:  … but so does being stuck.

BOB:  If we have merch at the conference, we will make some t-shirts.

POLLY:  Exactly. The merch table.

BOB:  By the way, nobody that I know is better than Polly at loving well even through hard things. I’ve watched her do incredible things in that vein. She has some validity to speak from.

NATALIE:  That is awesome. I can’t wait to hear that one. We get to hear each other’s stuff, right?

POLLY:  Yeah.

NATALIE:  Okay, good.

BOB:  Yeah unless you just don’t attend a session.

NATALIE:  Well, I was worried there would be three different sessions and people could choose. Then I thought, “Well then I’m not going to be able to hear them.

POLLY:  No, they are all main sessions. It would be cool to do breakouts, but right now this conference is our first, and we’re going to do all main sessions. So all 200 of us will be in one room.

NATALIE:  Okay. That will be awesome. This conference is jam-packed with good stuff. Nobody is going to walk away from this conference without having had their mind blown a few times and a notebook full of notes.

BOB:  We are Think Differently. That is both our counseling center and our academy. At the risk of sounding a little “advertisy” …

NATALIE:  That’s okay.

BOB:  To me, that is a super important phrase because I think a lot of times, we think that means to think better or to think new thoughts, but the reality is … The session I mentioned about the brain, the reality is that it’s about changing thought process. If abuse affects the way that your mind processes, everything that you think comes in through that process. So not only will people learn some great things – when you say their minds will be blown – we shoot for that in the sense that the circuits are already wired in from old things. If we don’t blow the circuits then new things can’t come in.

POLLY:  Can I say one thing quick about this? Sometimes people won’t sign up for something like this because they don’t feel smart enough and they don’t feel like they deserve it. You might sit through sessions thinking your brain is mush – is goo inside the cocoon – and you’re not receiving anything. But you are. Some of the stuff we end up believing as survivors is that we aren’t smart enough or we’re not worth the healing part of this. Or I’m so sick of the stuff (I’m not going to cuss …)

BOB:  Fill in the blank for yourself.

POLLY:  Do you have a beep button? I need a beep button.

NATALIE:  No, but sometimes we do cuss on this podcast.

POLLY:  Perfect! Okay, good. Sometimes I’m so sick of the religious crap – that pray harder and have more faith – that’s not what this conference is. It’s not what we do because we believe that is abuse and destructive. We’re not going to tell you not to pray. I’m not going to tell you not to discover and ask God for faith. But faith comes by hearing. When somebody tells you just to have it, that’s not designed specifically for you. This conference is shifting the neurons in the brain and literally interrupting it. I think of a train on a track, and then the track gets shifted. If it doesn’t get shifted and if we stay stuck on the same track, all the information on this track is going to be everything that we are fed. But once we interrupt it – because we pretty much start with the brain, right?

BOB:  I’m going to start I think (by the way, this is up for discussion when we’re off the air) I’m expecting to start with the plus/minus teaching to start the whole thing.

POLLY:  Perfect.

BOB:  I’ll say more about my sessions when you’re done.

POLLY:  When we interrupt the thought processes, new information can come in. But you may sit there and think, “Oh my gosh, I have no idea what is being said.” But your subconscious is freaking brilliant, and it is getting it. You may not get it until three weeks later or three months later, but you are still getting it. So just coming in and being amongst people that have similar stories – it’s like, “Yeah! I’m not alone.” And there is healing in that.

BOB:  One of the hallmarks to the Think Differently approach is that sometime our goal is not that people say, “Oh, I get it,” but that they say …

POLLY: “What?!” That’s the best one.

BOB:  That means that process of the butterfly where the caterpillar is turning to mush and the mind doesn’t feel very clear. Sometimes the though process doesn’t bring clarity, but it brings confusion that leads to clarity later.

NATALIE:  I love that. I’m so glad you guys brought that up. Yeah, that’s wonderful. What else are you going to do, Polly?

POLLY:  I have two bonus sessions, and I don’t want to give them away.

NATALIE:  Oh, okay. A surprise. Fair enough. Let’s keep that a surprise. That’s awesome. We can’t tell them everything, right?

POLLY:  Right.

BOB:  She’s been working on the revision of her book. She’s doing a second revision …

POLLY:  Third.

BOB:  … third revision of her book, so she’s been up to her neck in rewriting and editing and all that.

POLLY:  My mush mode. So the other two topics haven’t gotten … They’re a surprise – for me.

NATALIE:  Oh, that’s hilarious.

POLLY:  But they will be ready for the schedule, I promise.

BOB:  For your listeners, one of the things we’ve tried to tell Natalie is that we create as we go.

NATALIE:  That sounds like me though. That’s what I do.

BOB:  That’s actually … I’m a little torn about if I would teach this at this conference, but one of the teachings I do is on the thought process that we call “improvisation.” Musicians know it as improvising jazz or blues or something like that. But speakers also improvise. Thinkers improvise. Anybody who does any task can either come out of memorize and recite or synthesize and improvise. Memorize and recite only produces whatever already existed but synthesize and improvise can create new things. Part of the whole Think Differently thing is to recognize the whole thought process. Sometimes we’ve learned scripture that way. Memorize, recite, perform. What if instead we synthesize and allow God to come to us, live in us, and move through us based on everything we’ve heard from Him. Instead of memorizing scripture we let scripture turn us to mush and rebuild us. Out of that comes something out of Natalie Hoffman that no one has ever seen before. If all you do is memorize and recite, you will never create anything new. But improvisation is a way of thinking that leads to … What I tell people is that musicians that can learn by doing, memorize and perform and then you hear. But musicians who improvise hear and then perform.

NATALIE:  That’s very interesting and very encouraging for me because I am horrible at memorizing. But I can usually think on my feet and fly. In fact, sometimes when I am talking, I will get an idea while I am talking that will help me later down the road. I love that. That makes it so much easier.

POLLY:  It does.

BOB:  Hopefully that will come up in the conference. That’s not a whole session, but it’s one of the things that I teach in our freedom training. I pick up an instrument and teach about improvisation, and I use the instrument as a demonstration. You can either memorize and perform or synthesize and improvise. One of them creates new things; the other one just repeats old things.

POLLY:  So what are your other sessions?

BOB:  I’m going to teach the thing that I did on your podcast – the plus/minus thing. One of the reasons I feel so strongly about it (perhaps many of the people who are there have heard it) for one thing is that I’m always learning new things about it, so there is an improvisational aspect to that. Secondly, one of the reasons I think it is so in demand, as the three of us know and the people listening know, that when you’ve been through trauma it’s as if you’ve lived in a house of mirrors. You look at yourself and think, “I’m 6’3” and 200 some pounds, but that mirror makes me look like I’m 5’ and 80 pounds.” Or that mirror makes me look like I’m 80’ tall and an inch wide. The world around us reflects crazy, and soon we start to believe we are crazy. I think one of the reasons why that teaching has been so helpful to people is because people go, “Holy crap! That’s what it is! That’s what, that’s why, that’s how …” When you see clearly, and suddenly all the mirrors become straight and accurate, that’s the kind of truth that will set people free. So it’s a good idea to do the brain thing first.

POLLY:  I think so because … we’ll have that conversation later but not on your podcast.

BOB:  So I thought I’d do the plus/minus teaching just because it has been such a clarifying thing for people and kind of clears the fog.

NATALIE:  Yeah.

BOB:  Second, or maybe sequentially, I will teach the thing that we have been describing about the brain. Neither one of us are neuroscientists. I’m a counselor, but we’re both NLP Practitioners. Polly is a Think Differently coach, so with that she uses all the different principles including NLP and some other things, the Freedom model that we’ve developed. Out of that we have started teaching in the last year this idea of the four levels of the brain from the primitive to the most sophisticated, and how often we’re trying to get the life we’ve dreamed of from the part of our brain that is only based on survival. I had a client ask me, “Is there a difference between being “not dead” and being “alive?” The reality is that the bottom half of your brain is designed to keep you from dying. But if you want abundant life, the top half of your brain is where you need to learn to live. So you can be “not dead” and still be just “walking wounded”.

NATALIE:  Fascinating.

BOB:  The fullness of life, the top two elements of your brain, really are designed to give you the opportunity to be in the image of the One who made you. So you can not die, which is important. But more importantly, the top half of your brain helps you step into abundant living. The other thing about that teaching, and we’ve mentioned this already, is that it helps people recognize that, “I thought I was a failure, but I’ve actually been using the bottom half of my brain to do something that only the top half can do. Maybe I’m not a failure. Maybe I just didn’t know my brain very well.”

NATALIE:  Yes.

POLLY:  Yeah, and it removes shame in everything.

NATALIE:  I think that this conference is going to set people free in a lot of different areas. I really do. It’s very helpful. It’s going to fill people with hope. There is hope. I’m sure there will be some people listening to this who will be like, “Well, I can’t go to that conference.” They will probably be wondering if they will be able to access the material later. Do you have a plan for that?

POLLY:  That will be decided. We are filming it, and that will be decided after the conference because sometimes the material that we end up covering – we want to be as responsible as possible for any person that is watching it. We have a course called Rewire that we have removed from our website until we can redo one of the classes because it can be triggering. If you’re in counseling and walking through something with a professional, then you can actually get stuck. Our hearts are that we do not want that to happen. So we are recording it, but we will decide whether it will be on our academy site after or not. Another reason why is for protection of all the people coming. We know a lot of people who have and are coming out of abusive situations – some of the people that have abused them are dangerous. For security purposes, we want to make sure that everybody is very well protected. So after we shoot it, we’d really like to get it up on our academy site. That would be fantastic. That’s the reason we’re recording it.

BOB:  We’ll talk with our video guys ahead of time to not capture people’s faces.

NATALIE:  Yeah, I was going to say you won’t be picturing people.

BOB:  But someone might stand up and go to the restroom or there can be an inadvertent capture. If we are broadcasting live, you can’t go back and erase that. So we won’t broadcast live. We will, as Polly said, record that. We’ll look at that. If you want to look, then we’ll decide if we put the whole thing up, do we put most of the sessions, some of the sessions. But we will not put it up until we’ve really made sure that everybody is protected.

NATALIE:  Okay. So the best chance for people to be able to see it for sure is to come. But if not, hopefully some of the material will be available later.

BOB:  Discounts. I think there are some people who have registered.

NATALIE:  Yes! Let’s talk about that. So your people, people who are members of Think Differently Academy …

POLLY:  The premiums of when they are subscribers of the channel at the $12 per month at the academy, at TDAcademy – tdacad.com – they get the conference for just $99.

NATALIE:  Okay. Otherwise it is $147.

BOB:  If you are one of Natalie’s people …

NATALIE:  The members of the private Flying Free Group also get the same price – $99 instead of $147. So a little bit of a perk there for people who are part of our inner circle or the people that we work with on a regular basis. I think that is just as a thank you to them for working with us. It is one more way that we can help. Those are the people that we are pouring our time into, and it’s one more way that we can help assist them on their growing journey. But there is a way that other people can be part of those groups, correct? How can they be part of your group if they wanted to join?

POLLY:  If they wanted to sign up on the academy – tdacad.com – and then the premium subscription is just $12 a month. You can sign up for a couple of months and still get the discount.

BOB:  You can sign up for one month and get the discount.

POLLY:  Yeah. I think the way it does work out is that you still end up paying for two months but you are getting the conference still cheaper for $99, plus all of the content that is on our academy site, which is great to watch – like “The Foundations of Freedom” – before you come.

BOB:  That is super helpful.

POLLY:  Yes. But then there are also tons of free information, classes, topical classes like the plus and minus class, for free. You just have to sign up, but then you still get it all free. You can just find it through that way.

NATALIE:  I will put a link in the show notes so that people can link to it there.

POLLY:  Perfect.

BOB:  Let me say, really quick, I’ve been contacted by at least two people, and one of them is just tugging at my heart, who said, “I haven’t been on an airplane in thirty years. But I’ve just gotten out of this relationship. This conference may be the first thing I attend to help me, but financially it’s a problem. Miraculously, the weekend is free, and I’m seeing if I can afford plane fare. Is there anyway to get a scholarship?” So here’s our struggle. When we use our center, which only seats forty people, or when we use a less expensive venue where we can get maybe 100 people, it’s easier for us to scholarship. On our end, this is the most expensive thing we’ve done also because we want to open as many seats as possible. So it’s harder for us to scholarship. But we’ve had a couple of people on our end say, “I can’t come, but I would love to pay for someone else to go.” So if there is anyone listening who is interested in providing a scholarship for someone else, we’ve been contacted by at least two people who are in a situation where they would love to come but feel like they cannot afford the registration fee. If someone wanted to help on our end, they could contact [email protected] and they would know how to help them provide a scholarship for someone else.

NATALIE:  Perfect.

BOB:  I’m glad we were talking about that. That one lady is just tugging at my heart.

NATALIE:  And here is the thing people need to understand. This venue only seats 200; only 200 people can come. And this is not a money maker. The money is going toward paying for the venue that is hosting this thing and then for our time for that weekend.

POLLY:  And for your flight.

NATALIE:  Yes, and they are paying for my flight and they are paying for my daughter to come out to help. So this is not something that … The money that the conference costs is covering the cost of having this conference.

POLLY:  That’s why it is only $99. Or even only $147. So many conferences are more. We know people must get hotels as well. There is a hotel attached that is giving a great discount, and it’s a lovely hotel. There are several hotels that are within walking distance, so you don’t even need to rent a car. I will say this for the people listening – fly into DFW. If you fly into Love Field, it’s a trek from Dallas to Hurst. You can do it, but if you are Ubering or anything like that you are looking at a high cost. But if you want to rent a car and you can get cheap flights on Southwest, then do that. But I’m just saying fly into DFW because sometimes people fly into Love Field and don’t know it’s 45 minutes away.

NATALIE:  Good to know. It’s just a hop, skip, and a jump from DFW.

POLLY:  Yeah.

NATALIE:  I think that’s it. Did you guys have anything else that you wanted to share that you think we should talk about?

BOB:  I don’t think I talked about all my sessions. I will quickly say them. I’m going to teach on boundaries. You and I had talked a little bit about that because you also are doing some teaching on boundaries. But one of the aspects of my teaching on boundaries is that boundaries are about establishing and maintaining identity and wholeness. Then we will talk about how in the gaslighting/word salad face of personality disordered people communication is an important way to maintain self in that process. I’ll do a session on that. Then I feel like there is one more that I’m not recalling in my mind.

NATALIE:  That’s awesome! That’s going to be really, really good. Communication with these people – so good. Because even if you separate from your abusive partner, I’m sorry but these people are all over the place! You will eventually have to communicate with them at some other point. I’m running into them all the time online. It’s kind of fun because it hones my skills, and I’ve learned so much about how to handle these kinds of people. It’s kind of fun. It’s a challenge. I forgot to mention too that the third one I am doing is on parenting. Mostly because I have nine kids. Those are my nine kids on the wall there.

BOB:  That’s a great wall.

NATALIE:  They range in ages from seven to twenty-six, and some of them have special needs. Some of them have fallen away from the LORD. Anything that you can possibly imagine – I’ve got a daughter who’s got BPD; I have a son who’s autistic – I have experienced a lot of stuff in my parenting. So I’m going to do a course on parenting kids that have grown up in a family that has experienced some trauma, emotional abuse, and spiritual abuse. I think that will be good. I don’t know what my fourth one is going to be yet. I haven’t figured that out.

POLLY:  Surprise!

NATALIE:  But I’ll be surprised too. I’ve got some surprises.

POLLY:  Awesome.

NATALIE:  And the one of Bob’s that he forgot about is going to be a surprise too.

POLLY:  It will be a surprise when I remember it. I think I’ve written it down.

NATALIE:  Engage that pre-frontal cortex, Bob.

BOB:  I love this conversation because talking about what all three of us will do you can kind of hear the flow and how, complementary – the same but not the same …

NATALIE:  Right! Different angles. That goes back to our conversation where we talked about reframing things. Sometimes you have to hear things over and over again in different ways, and then it starts to make sense in your head. So the three of us are going to wiggle through all that ooze for all of these women who are in their cocoons, and hopefully God will use this whole conference to help create some of that transformation and set people free.

BOB:  There’s another t-shirt for our merch table. “Wiggle through the Ooze.”

POLLY:  Wiggle through the Ooze.

NATALIE:  Oh my goodness we need someone to write these ideas down. Alright, thank you so much, Bob and Polly. Let’s do some Facebook Lives so we can connect with people in the future and get questions from people. Those of you who are listening my Facebook page is facebook.com/flyingfree and theirs is …

POLLY:  We have Think Differently Academy and then my personal one is Polly Wright Hamp on Facebook.

BOB:  Mine is Bob Hamp, and there is two of them. There’s an old personal page that I’ve been trying to move away from, and then there’s the Bob Hamp one that I post most of my stuff on. So find the one that is not a personal page.

POLLY:  The one that you “like” and not “friend request.” That’s on both of our pages.

NATALIE:  Perfect. Thank you. To the rest of you who are listening, thank you for joining us. Until next time, fly free!