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Finding Your Personal Style After Years of Emotional Abuse [Episode 121]

How do I find my personal style after years of emotional abuse?

Ugly. Fat. Frumpy. Gross. These words ache inside of you and echo in your mind. Maybe they were said to you, maybe they were shown to you, maybe society planted them in your mind.

Recovering from abuse isn’t just about healing the inside, it’s about manifesting life on the outside. 
You were created to embody beauty and appreciate it — in your smile, with your clothes, your hair style, even the makeup you choose to wear — and Jill Swanson is an expert in helping women do just that.

In this light-hearted podcast, learn:

  • Why caring about your clothes/hair/using makeup is NOT SHALLOW or UNBIBLICAL
  • What covers a multitude of sins? Clothes!
  • How to use what your mama and the good Lord gave you (don’t worry, it’s G-rated)
  • REAL-LIFE EXAMPLES of how/why color coordination makes a huge difference
  • The heartbreak that led Jill to develop her beauty know-how and start a business helping women

Related Resources:

Jill Swanson is a Christian image/style consultant whose passion is to help women feel good about themselves and the way God created them – on the inside and out. Jill understands the second-guessing and insecurity that many of us experience when we look in the mirror. Her goal is to see women blossom as they step into their lives with newfound confidence. With an emphasis on simplicity and affordability, she helps women make the most of what they’ve got, effortlessly, everyday! Jill is the author of several books, including Simply Stylish  Look Great, Spend Less! and the newly released 30 Day Makeover — Inside and Out.

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Hi. This is Natalie Hoffman of, and you’re listening to the Flying Free Podcast, a support resource for women of faith looking for hope and healing from hidden emotional and spiritual abuse

NATALIE: Welcome to Episode 121 of the Flying Free Podcast. Today I invited a special guest to answer one question you sent in. I’m excited about this episode because I think we’re going to have some fun. This is not as serious as some of our other episodes. My guest is Jill Swanson. She’s a Christian image style consultant whose passion is to help women feel good about themselves and the way God created them, inside and out. Jill is the author of several books, including Simply Stylish—Look Great, Spend Less! (I love that) and the newly released book 30 Day Makeover—Inside and Out. Welcome to the Flying Free podcast, Jill.

JILL: Hey, thank you, Natalie.

NATALIE: Those of you listening on the podcast, we are also recording this for YouTube. So I’m saying, “Hi,” to podcast listeners, and I’m saying, “Hi” to YouTube watchers. Those of you on YouTube, I want you to know… Jill, I want you to tell them how old you are because it just blows my mind. Tell them how old you are.

JILL: A woman is never supposed to reveal this.

NATALIE: I know. But I think for our topic we need to reveal it.

JILL: Okay. I just turned sixty. But you must realize that I have filters on my cameras. You know you can do that with Zoom? You can put filters on? So if you see me in real life you will say, “Oh my word. Has she ever aged!”

NATALIE: I have the filters on mine too, but it’s not that drastically different. It’s not like you’re getting a… What do they do in magazines? What’s that called?

JILL: I call it “photox” instead of Botox.

NATALIE: So if you are listening on the podcast and you want to see what we’re talking about (I mean she looks absolutely incredible) you’d have to go to my YouTube channel and watch this episode over there. Anyway, before we get to the listener’s question, I want to tell everyone how you and I connected a few years ago. This was about 2013, and I was getting coaching from Leslie Vernick. I was telling her about how frumpy I felt and how everything in my closet was either black or gray. She recommended I call you. I think you had done some work with her, correct?

JILL: Yeah.

NATALIE: Fortunately, Jill lives not that far from me in Rochester, Minnesota, where Mayo Clinic is. (That’s kind of how people know that place.) She came out to my house, and we went through my closet. She took me shopping at all these amazing thrift stores in the Twin Cities. I had never thrift-shopped before. I didn’t even know what that was. She taught me what colors looked good on me, what styles were right for my particular body shape, and my closet has never been the same. You’re going to understand why I’m setting this up when you hear this listener’s question. When I heard this question, I immediately thought of Jill. I thought she was the perfect answer to this question. So here’s the question.

CALLER: Hi Natalie. Flying Free has been the perfect next step in my life after separating from my husband for almost a year and a half and taking a Christian co-dependency workshop class that was very enlightening. This definitely was the perfect next step. I have two questions, actually. One is that I would love to… I’m 63 years old. Of course, my hair color has changed and other various things about me. I would love to have a reputable service that could help me to remake my physical appearance to capitalize on what I have. I don’t want major shifts or changes. I’m happy with who I am and how I look, but what type of glasses and what colors look good with gray hair? Those types of things. I’ve tried to Google it. There are beautiful people in the area, but they do just hair or nails or facials. They don’t talk about what coordinates. You always look so coordinated and I love that.

NATALIE: So, Jill, you know why I thought of you. Why don’t you tell everyone what you do for a living?

JILL: Okay. Mind you, I’ve been doing this since I was twenty years old, so I’ve built the business as the years have gone by. It started out… The basic is knowing what your colors are. The great thing about that is that color speaks for you before you even get into the room. It says something to people about you. But a color, it doesn’t cost you any extra money to get the right color on something. It’s not like you must spend a lot more money on that jacket so it looks good. No, you can buy a black blazer on the same rounder as a red one and wear the red one instead of the black one, and that will be the same price. So I started with color analysis because I thought it was the art of the natural beauty in a woman. It is bringing out your natural hair color, your eye color, and playing up your lip and cheek color. It’s simple, and it made sense to me. This is like Garanimals for adults. You get a color swatch packet that is made to mix and match. It’s great! It was just so logical to me. I tell people they can get down to one lipstick and one blush. They can get down to one nail enamel. They can get down to one pair of shoes. You can get down to one of everything, basically. If you needed to. I’m all about simplifying things. That’s where I started. Then I realized there were all these women with body image issues. They felt terrible about what they looked like. They’d put on five, ten, fifteen, twenty pounds. They feel awful about what they look like now. How can I help them? It’s like I tell my friends, clothes cover a multitude of sins. There is so much you can do with clothing.

NATALIE: It’s true.

JILL: There are some great tricks for that. I decided I wanted to teach women how to look good in their clothes, and not just the clothing looking good on their body, but the clothing reflecting who they are on the inside out. You know you have friends who are earthy, natural friends who wouldn’t wear a speck of makeup if their life depended on it. They have a look. They have a personality. You really don’t want to necessarily change them. You like them the way they are. Then you have other friends who are super girly girly who like the chichi la-la kinds of stuff because that’s their thing. So let’s celebrate who we are on the inside out, too. So when I do a style consultation with someone, I want you to know both aspects of that and what would go well with your features. What matches your nose? What matches the shape of your lips? What matches your jaw line? Let’s work with the way God blessed you. Then it’s like, “She’s telling me colors and styles, but I have no clue how to go shopping or what I should do with what’s hanging in my closet.” So with fear and trepidation… And I’m not kidding you. Every time I open a new part of my business it’s like, “Lord, I don’t want to do this. I don’t like this. Let’s just do colors. I know colors.” But sure enough, it opened the door to organizing closets, which I absolutely love, and teaching people how to put those clothes together so they look good on you, determine what’s missing, and answering, “Why doesn’t this look right? I bought it and it looked great.” I often laugh and say we love what we buy, but we hate 2/3 of what’s in our closet. Very often that happens.


JILL: Once I empty out someone’s closet… I shouldn’t say that because I try to leave people with a fairly good percentage of what I started out with. If I can’t leave them much I’ll say, “Let’s just restyle this in a different way, put some different buttons on it, or take the sides of the shirt in and it will look good.” I’m looking for ways we can recycle and reuse what you have. Then the next step is we need to shop. We need to find some things to fill the void, like you and I did together. Oh, my word! My favorite place to shop, as you well know, are those consignment stores. We’re blessed because I shop consignment stores all over the country. In fact, I have a running list of the good consignment stores in Florida, the ones I found in California, and some others here and there. I’ll tell you one thing. There’s better shopping in Minneapolis and St. Paul area than anywhere else in the country, and the reason is we clearly have four seasons. People don’t keep the clothes that long, so they don’t wear out.

NATALIE: Oh yeah!

JILL: If you go to California, these people have worn their clothes year-round because they have the same temperature all year round. Their clothes usually don’t look as good in the consignment stores whereas ours usually look pretty good. They are like new.

NATALIE: That’s a fascinating piece of trivia.

JILL: Yes. After I did all that, I developed one program for a select few women who said, “I just want to be completely made over. What can I do?” For an entire day, and sometimes I encourage them to do it for a day and a half, we do all those things I just said. I pick out make-up. I help them learn how to put it on. I take them down to get their hair done. It’s a blast. If they are saying, “No, I want to stay with my own hair stylist; I’m not sure I’m ready for that,” then I’ll give them pictures of hairstyles and say, “Here’s what you need to do.” The results are those before and after pictures that I often show when I’m doing presentations like this. The pictures—I put a lot of them in my book, Simply Stylish, to inspire women. I don’t wake up looking like this. I really want to shout that out. It must take a bit of work. But a little bit of paint on the side of the barn never hurts anything, right? I mean, why not?

NATALIE: I love you so, so much.

JILL: I should just come on here sometime with no make-up on.

NATALIE: You should put that… Hey, that’s a great idea for your next book. Do a before and after of Jill Swanson.

JILL: I have those that I use when I do presentations.


JILL: In fact, I come in looking like a before and then transfer into an after. But the real Jill… When I try to do these, I had professional pictures taken of me with no make-up on—absolutely no make-up, looking as bad as I could in reality—and then me with make-up on. There is a significant difference. It’s phenomenal. But the thing is that everybody has their pain points. For me, it’s these huge dark circles under my eyes that make me look like a zombie. I mean, when I get up in the morning you’d be scared if you came to my door. That’s all I can say about that. So we all have things about ourselves we really don’t like.

NATALIE: Yeah. I want to draw attention to the fact that the reason I thought this was a great question and a great topic for this podcast is that so many Christian women are going through… I think many people go through a mid-life crisis, anyway. That’s just sort of a normal thing to go through. Not everyone, but many people do. A lot of the women in my audience, my listeners, are going through a mid-life crisis at the same time they are going through this waking up process and realizing that they don’t even know who they are. They gave themselves to this husband or to their families—they died to themselves—but now they are dead, and they don’t even know… They’ve lost touch with what they even like. A lot of the women I work with, they don’t know what they like. They don’t know what colors they like. I think that’s where I was. That’s why my closet was just black and gray, because I think it reflected how I felt inside. I just felt black and gray inside. Those of you on the podcast, you can’t see me, but I’m wearing a color. Now I gravitate and go look for colors, just like you taught me, and my closet is full of my signature colors. Can you talk to us a little about that? That’s a really easy thing for people to go fix.

JILL: It is. It’s something you can put into practice, probably with things that are already in your closet too. Your signature colors are simply the colors that repeat and enhance your own natural coloring. It’s the colors you see when you look in the mirror. So my signature colors… First, let’s talk about hair color. My hair color is kind of a golden beigey kind of shade or whatever Ms. Clairol might pull out that week. But basically my hair color has got a lot of yellow tones to it and some brown. So when I wear a camel color, like a camel-colored coat, you notice my hair right away. I actually keep a camel-colored coat in my closet regularly because when I don’t have the right colored coat to wear over something else—if I put that on, it just looks right because it’s an extension of my hair. So for you, the platinum and ash tones that are in your hair would be one of your signature colors, and you could get a jacket, sweater, or scarf in that color. What it will do is look like an extension of your hair. If you’re thinking, “My hair isn’t very long,” believe it or not, you can put a scarf around your neck in your hair color and visually make your hair look longer. Even though you aren’t fooling anybody, it’s an optical illusion. It’s so cool that it works that way. The second signature color, and this is so much more evident on you, Natalie, than it is on me, is the eye color. When you wear a blue or a teal, the first thing people focus on is your eyes. They are just drawn right in and are looking right at you. When you wear your eye color, you have eye contact with people, and when you have eye contact, you have better communication skills. Talking one-on-one with someone, if you want someone to really listen to you, your eye color is an excellent color to wear. The third color, and this is my favorite one, is your lip and cheek color because, like what you have on today, the first thing I notice was your lipstick and your cheek colors stood out. You look really healthy. It really pops on you. I love that. I usually try to do that regularly with what I wear. I think the last time we were together I had my coral blazer on.


JILL: This has got just a little bit of pink and rose in the color, just a touch of it, enough so that it keeps me bright-looking. You don’t have to do this in clothes either. You could do it in a necklace that has your signature colors in it or a scarf with your signature colors in it. I challenge you, ladies. Go to your closet. Start going through and say, “What matches my lips? What matches my hair? What matches my eyes?” Start working with those. The only thing I need to warn you about is that there are those of us with dark eyes and dark hair—brown eyes and brown hair—and sometimes very dark skin. You may think, “Brown on me is kind of boring.” But what you do if you have a dark complexion is to pair that brown color with white because with you, what will happen is your eyes will stand out even more because you’ve got the whites of your eyes, and your smile will stand out more too. You put the white on and it’s like, “Oh, smile and eyes, wow!” It really makes it happen. So that paired with brighter colors. Another option, you can take a shade like brown and put it with a bright red, orange, pink, or something like that and really make them focus on you. I think it’s important that you feel good about your own natural coloring. Granted, we can change the lip color. The key thing is to get you in the right lip color. Going back a bit on what you were saying about not knowing who you are when you come out of this, like somebody else had dictated, “I want you to look like this,” perhaps that has been your situation. Or like you said, you totally lost yourself. Like, “Gray and black, that’s all that is in my closet.” One of the key things in my working with someone is that I have them take personality tests. They are fun ones. It’s not anything that is going to be held against you in a court of law or anything like that. But what it does is to help me help you understand who you really are. What is your dressing style? What is it that is going to punctuate you? I get many people who are a bit of a blend. I talked about your friend who is an earthy natural and your other friend who’s a romantic. Some people are a blend of those two. I call them … natural, or maybe an earthy romantic. The interesting thing is getting that right person dug up so you understand what that is and what that looks like right down to how you organize that closet. Your personality can tell you whether you should have your closets all regimented right in a row or whether you need outfits hanging together. Some people I will say, “Honey, don’t put all your clothes in your closet. Put half of them in this closet and half of them in another closet because in another month you are going to be bored with them. If you see it, it is going to bore you.” So go back to the other closet then and pull out something fresh.” So there are all kinds of places where personality comes into play.

NATALIE: I love that. I felt a blossoming of who I was when I started looking for clothes. It’s so weird because in the Christian world that I was raised in and was immersed in for so many years, that was such an external thing that was self-centered or viewed as not very spiritual. It was something that you shouldn’t really focus on because there were so many other important things to focus on, right? So I felt guilty. I had to get past that. Even hiring you for that day, I really struggled with guilt for that for a while. Now I wouldn’t, but the person I was back then, I had to push against what all my brain’s programming was up to that point. But it was pivotal. That was a pivotal moment in my life, probably the very beginning of me busting out of that cocoon and learning I didn’t have to be a little green or brown caterpillar on the ground. I could actually be a butterfly and fly, and that is who God created me to be. We can celebrate being a butterfly and looking like butterflies.

JILL: Yes. I think all this stems from that verse in 1 Peter 3:3-4. That’s the one that tells us your beauty should not come from outward adornment.

NATALIE: Yes, yes.

JILL: It’s the braiding of hair and wearing gold jewelry. You’re like, “Oh my goodness! I’ve got to stop looking dressed up and looking beautiful because that’s all wrong.” And this is New Testament stuff. My goodness, we’re not even talking about Leviticus here; it’s New Testament. But the problem is, and I think a lot of us have stumbled on this verse whether it was ingrained in us growing up or for me, as an adult going into this business and reading that, it made it hard for me to justify, “Can I have a ministry and do a beauty business at the same time?” And God said, “Heavens, yes.” Really, what it comes down to is consider the background of what was going on here in Roman history. Women were weaving their hair with gold and sparkly stones and things. They would do this just to garner attention, and not just attention from men, but attention to say, “Hey, we’ve got lots of money. Look what we’ve got.” So it was a pride thing. It was not a matter of God saying, “Be too ugly because you are a Christian.” That had nothing to do with it. It’s interesting. In 1 Timothy 2:10, it indicates that we need to stand out for our godliness and not our gaudiness. In these women’s cases, obviously, it was the gaudiness. Can you imagine putting your hair up and doing it really high and then having all kinds of gemstones around it and lots of gold jewelry hanging on your neck? That would be kind of the old Mr. T issue some people dressed like about twenty years ago. But I think for some people it gets ingrained in us while growing up. It’s like my mom always said—it’s simply wrong. My dad never would let me wear makeup. I’ve heard that many times. I was the kid who, even in junior high school, wanted to wear makeup, and my parents, my dad in particular, were a bit like, “No.” I would get on the bus when I was younger in sixth grade, pinching my cheeks as hard as I could so I would have color. (It’s amazing I didn’t pinch them right off. I really wanted color, and I had no color there at all.) Then if I recall, the next step was putting a little makeup on while on the bus, so mom and dad didn’t see me doing it.


JILL: But coming back to what it means today, it’s a matter of what is your motive for looking good, dressing nice, wearing makeup, fixing your hair. What’s the real motive that is driving you to do that? If you’re in a marriage and are doing it to attract other men, then no. I’m sorry, but that is very wrong. If you’re doing it because you want everybody to notice you and say, “My goodness. She’s so beautiful.” You’ve got to think about what your reason behind it is. How we look and what we wear is going to influence us and others’ perception of us. There’s no getting around it. We live in a world where we see things. That’s how we communicate with people. Clothing, accessories, and makeup communicate a message about ourselves, and this has been proven many times that when people first see you, it communicates your trustworthiness, your credibility, your moral values, your intellect, and your savvy. If you’re outdated and out of tune with what’s going on in the world and you’re trying to deliver a message to someone that is maybe a message of intellect, or “Let me help you get out of this situation,” or in my case beauty, and they look at you and think your look is dated, they are going to think your ideas are dated as well. The same way with your glasses. I often say the glasses and hair tell a lie because glasses are the one accessory people see on you more than anything else you might wear. So try to keep those up to date as much as you can. I realize that’s a huge issue, financially. I don’t have insurance that covers my glasses, so I have to really think carefully, “Am I going to wear these for a long time, and are they going to look dated?” All those things come into play. I am very empathetic towards women who think, “What do I spend my money on? What do I not spend my money on?”

NATALIE: Yeah, you were very sensitive to that with me because I was still in my prior relationship and money was being watched very carefully. I had to be careful, and I got in trouble. Do you remember? I got in trouble. I don’t know if you remember but at the end of our day together my ex called and was angry and I had to go. I had to cut it short a bit, and I left. But I am so glad. It was so worth it. I wanted to find out if you could share how you got into this business?

JILL: This goes back a long way. I was in eighth grade and had this huge crush on a guy. You know those junior high crushes. I would watch him and follow him around and think, “Oh, he’s so cute.” But I wouldn’t dare go up to him because it was just not how you would do it in the eighth grade. Finally, toward the end of the year, my girlfriend said, “I’m going to get him to come over and say hello to you. At lease get him to come to the locker and say hi to you.” I thought, “Okay, I guess I can handle that.” She got Arnold—Arnold, right…

NATALIE: That’s hilarious.

JILL: She said, “My friend, Jill, would like to meet you.” He walked over to the locker next to where I was standing. In those days we had huge lockers. I could be inside the locker; it was that big. He took one look at me and said, “You’re ugly.” He slammed the locker and walked away.

NATALIE: Oh, my goodness.

JILL: I remember how that sunk in so deeply. I thought, “I’m ugly. I’m ugly.” I guess I hadn’t thought a lot about beauty or ugliness at that point in my life. It wasn’t a huge deal. I liked to play pretend and dress up in dresses and long formal things and pretend I was a princess. But to have a guy that you’re really interested in telling you you’re ugly—it’s devastating. I know a lot of your listeners have not just encountered this from a boyfriend, but from the person they committed their life to. And Natalie, that breaks my heart. That is not right! I go back and think of how that impacted me at such a young age. I was able to spring back from it, but it still never left my mind. But to have that done as an adult woman. To have a man say something that horrible to you or tell you, “You’re fat. I don’t want to be with you.” That’s awful! That’s abuse. What it did to me at that age in my life was make me say, “I will never have someone say that to me again. I will do what I can to make the most of what I’ve got so I can feel good about myself and be ready to go into high school.” I spent time that summer especially going through beauty magazines and really studying, “How did she do her makeup? What do her eyebrows look like? What is this?” I started getting really into it by saying, “What can I do to make the most of what I’ve got?”

When I graduated from high school, it was an ongoing thing for me to do that. But I also had a ball in high school making over my friends. So I kind of came by this naturally. I was like, “Hey! Let me show you what I can do with makeup because I’ve really had a good time learning about this.” I’m grateful for where God brought me from it. The reality is when I wake up in the morning, I am still the old Jill, but at the same time, I can slap on a little concealer and some lip color and feel a little better about myself. What you see right now represents the woman I want to be. That’s really who I am on the inside. Especially in this. I love yellow. It makes me feel good. I love to wear a little makeup and do a little eye thing and feel good about myself. It really affects my self-esteem, and I know it does for the clients I work with as well. I can remember having clients come in who feel really low and down about themselves, and when I got done, they looked in the mirror and they were crying. This is a common thing for me. With tears in their eyes they say, “I didn’t know I could look like this.” God made everybody beautiful! Every woman has got something uniquely her that sets her apart from everyone else and makes her beautiful. I can’t help that when I’m looking at someone or talking with someone, I notice these details. I notice the fact that you have beautiful lips. I notice the fact that your eyebrows are beautifully placed on your eyes and they’re not twins; they’re sisters. They’re not exactly the same. Little details like that, I can’t help but notice them. I always notice the good in another person. I always notice the beauty that is there. We as women were created that way. We’re created to appreciate beauty and to create beauty.


JILL: Whether it’s a meal that you are making, a garden you are planting, a home that you are decorating, or a child you are dressing, you naturally have this gift of creativity to make things beautiful. God placed it in our hearts. How cool!

NATALIE: Yes. I love that we can do that with ourselves. When I think of you, you are like a restorer of a fine, antique piece of… If you saw an antique desk, for example, in an antique store that hadn’t been taken care of for so many years, but you can see the potential in that desk, and you bring it home. The work that you do is not like you are making the desk over again. All you are doing is bringing out the natural beauty that was already put in there by the original craftsperson, right? That’s what you do.

JILL: Yes. Why I like that is the fact that you’ve now taken something that has been sitting unused for many years in the corner of the store, and you are bringing it home and made it beautiful. Now you can actually use it as a desk. When we feel good, it energizes us. When we look put together, we can suddenly start concentrating our efforts on the task at hand and set our attention on other people and not on ourselves or feeling bad about ourselves.

NATALIE: Also, it’s just plain old fun. Why not! Why not have fun?! Jill, before we go, I want you to tell them, especially this woman who asked the question… She was looking for you! She is looking specifically for you. I’m sure there are other women listening to this who are thinking, “Yes. I’d like to know more information about how I could have Jill come and help me.” Or it could be as simple as purchasing one of your books. That’s a good place to break in because you have great tips in those books as well as other services that you offer. Why don’t you tell us what you do? (Not what you do. We’ve already talked about that.) How can they find you now?

JILL: Let me start at the bottom tier here. The easiest thing to do, my books are written in quite simple ways. I wrote them with the understanding of a nine- to twelve-year-old. If a nine- to twelve-year-old picked up my book, they would get it. If you’re the type of person who is still a little guilty about spending time on yourself and you don’t know if you should do this, I wrote Out the Door in 15 Minutes – How to Look Fabulous Fast because then you can save that time and use it for something else. It’s just a bunch of quick tips. It includes simple things like how to clean your closet and make it organized, how to pack for a trip, and that type of thing. The other book I wrote more recently is more of a manual you are going to keep in your closet and refer to regularly. This is called Simply Stylish—Look Great, Spend Less! Again, I taught them how to do quick. Now let’s talk about how to do it cheap. You don’t have to spend a lot of money to look good. In this book, I give ideas on where to shop and what to buy at this type of store—like an outlet store versus a consignment store or a department store versus a boutique. There are purposes for each one of these stores you can but things in that make sense. I outline that part of it. But more importantly, I went into how to figure out what your colors might be and how to figure out what looks good on your body style. There is one of the personality tests in there to figure out your personality. That what I covered in this book. Most people wanted more of a workbook. “How can I make this really work together?” So that’s why I wrote 30 Day Make Over Inside and Out, which is the one that just came out. This isn’t just a workbook about your outer beauty. To me, it’s important that you work to the same degree daily on your inner person as you are on the outer person. Eventually, what happens is you are working more on the inner person and less on the outer person and you feel good about it. God wants us to be concentrating our efforts in Him. So those are the tiers going up. The consultations… I get many people that I’m doing online consultations with now because most of my clients are from all over the world. With that… Again, I say start out with color and style. I can do those online. I have you send me some photos. Again, nobody sees these but me, so it’s okay. But looking at those pictures, I can determine what colors you can wear. I can determine what styles you wear. I also usually do a Zoom meeting to get to know you a bit. That’s the other aspect. Beyond that, I can do a closet thing where I go through your closet with you online. I have a program where we store all your clothes in a closet online, so you have access to it anytime you want it. If you think, “Do I have a shirt that goes with that? Let me look in my closet.” It will be in there.

NATALIE: Interesting!

JILL: Yeah, it’s fun. I use it a lot for myself because if I can’t remember if I bought a navy blazer a few years ago or not, it will be in my phone right at my fingertips. It’s a service I pay for so my clients can use, so it doesn’t cost you anything. It’s just part of the closet part of this. Then with that, I can shop for you online. I can put outfits together that way. I can say, “You could take this and this and put them together, and here’s a little pod.” You then have pictures of those pods of what goes together. The other thing I encourage women to do is if you can get to Minnesota, take a vacation for just shopping. It’s not just shopping. It’s getting educated on how to shop because most of the women who shop with me say, “I kept hearing your voice in my head the next time I went shopping. It was saying, ‘No, you don’t want to do that. It doesn’t fit you right there.’ Or, ‘Do you really love that? I think you’re more in love with the price than the piece.’” Those are the types of things. I can take a woman shopping and outfit and dress her for a day, or I can teach her to dress and dress her for a lifetime. That’s where I just love what I do because then they say, “Look what I bought! This is working for me! I’m so getting this!” That’s how I want women to be. I want them to have fun with it like you said.

NATALIE: Yeah. I can attest, as one of your clients, that it was amazing. I learned a ton. Again, it was a pivotal point in my life for a lot of different reasons.

JILL: I’m so glad to hear it.

NATALIE: Thank you so much, Jill, for taking some time and sharing your expertise with us. You were the perfect person to answer that question, and I think many people got a lot out of this.

JILL: I’m hoping so. If you don’t have time, or if you can’t afford this stuff, I have a blog on my website. Go to that. It’s got tons of articles, and you can search for whatever you’re looking for. That would be a big help too.

NATALIE: Yes. I will put links for all of you listening or watching. I’ll put links in the show notes. If you go to, which is this episode number, all the links will be there. It will be convenient for you to just click on the links and go exactly where you want to go.

JILL: Let’s throw that discount code in there too.

NATALIE: Oh yeah! Tell us about that.

JILL: If you want to get a book, if you buy any of them individually, you can get it for twenty percent off if you use the CHIC20 code. That’s all you’ve got to know. If you buy the two books together, those are discounted already. There’s a great value in that. It’s better than the twenty percent off.

NATALIE: Okay. Perfect. That discount code will be in there as well. Alright you guys, thanks so much for joining us for this episode. Until next time, fly free!

"This resource was instrumental to me finding the courage and peace when leaving my abusive marriage. If it weren’t for Natalie, I still might be believing that God wants me stuck in an abusive marriage. Her courage to speak out against something so taboo in the Christian culture has helped me and so many other women! I highly recommend this podcast to any woman of faith (or even no faith at all) dealing with an abusive marriage and trying to find clarity in such a tough and confusing time."
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An online coaching, education, and support community for women of faith in destructive relationships.

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