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Episode 67: The Link Between Narcissism and Legalism, Interview with Dave Orrison – Part 1

by | May 20, 2020 | Expert Interviews, Healing from Spiritual Abuse, The Flying Free Podcast | 3 comments

Natalie interviews Pastor Dave Orrison about how legalism breeds narcissism and vice versa. If you’ve been part of a religious organization that powers over and lays heavy burdens on its constituents, then you’ve experienced this pathological combination and the spiritual and emotional trauma it causes.

About Dave Orrison

Dave Orrison is an author and long time pastor (42 years) who lives and works in Colorado happily enjoying life with his wife and eight sons. You can find Dave on his website: He has also written the following books:

Practical Grace was written for those who want to know how to live without the rules and condemnation of legalism.  What does life look like under grace?  Not just church life, but regular life, the kind of thing we all live day by day.  You will learn what it looks like to walk with Jesus through daily life.

Milestones of Grace was designed for those who have known the message of grace but have allowed the old habits to sidetrack them in their walk with Jesus.  This is a thinkers’ book.  It will help you reestablish the foundation of your life under grace.  Five touchpoints are offered to help anyone find their way back to the truth of the love of God in Jesus and the powerful effect of His grace.

Narcissism in the Church exposes the practice of narcissistic behavior in various parts of church life.  From parents to friends to pastors and denominations, the book shows how narcissists use the church culture to satisfy their own desires and use people as their narcissistic supply.  This book will explain many things for those who find the church culture to be toxic.  At the same time, it offers hope and practical solutions.

Walk with Me is a devotional for those who want daily reaffirmation and assurance in their walk with Jesus.  Accompanied by beautiful expressions of nature, the readings will encourage your heart.

Click to play: 

Read the transcript here!


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  1. just ... K

    I just discovered pastor Dave’s blog yesterday and spent a veeeeery looooong time reading there, so this interview was like icing on the cake. Looking forward to part 2! (Just a note that the link to Dave’s blog wasn’t working for me – I used this one: Thank you both for the interview!

    • Natalie Hoffman

      Thank you for the heads up! I’ll correct that link!

      • just ... K

        Natalie, I do apologise – the problem was ME! I have a very ancient computer. The original link you posted does work if you’re more up to date. I do apologise!


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