Forgiveness is one of the ultimate Christian virtues, right after love. It “sets the prisoners free.” Except in your life. It keeps you defenseless and bound to a person, or people, determined to keep harming you. Forgiveness seems like a superhighway to destruction, the restart button for more craziness and pain. So, should you keep forgiving someone who keeps hurting you…and how?

Flying Free sister Daphne joins Natalie and Rachel to discuss what forgiveness really is and the ways they’ve been harmed by the false (and very common) teachings about it. Despite that, there really is great news about forgiveness:

It’s not a weapon for our abuser, it’s a tool for us to cut ourselves completely out of their grasp and influence. Forgiveness isn’t a magical cure for the pain we feel or the healing we need, but it does allow us to fully enter our future without being influenced by our abusers. Forgiveness is a tool for our empowerment!

Click to view Bob Hamp’s talk on Forgiveness mentioned in this episode.

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Do you have a question related to emotional or spiritual abuse that you’d like answered on the Flying Free podcast? Head over HERE!

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Glad you have found encouragement, wisdom, and support here Emma Carlotta! Keep taking steps in your continued healing journey, and thanks for leaving a rating and review on iTunes!

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How Do I Forgive Someone Who Keeps Hurting Me? [Transcript]

NATALIE: Welcome to Episode 81 of the Flying Free Podcast! Today I have with me
Daphne and Rachel, and we’re going to introduce you to Daphne. She’s been on the
podcast in the past, but it’s been quite a while. We’ll do introductions in just a minute.
First, I want to say that our topic today is on the subject of forgiveness. I was going to sing
that song – who sings that song? “Forgiveness, even if, even if, you don’t love me
anymore.” Who sings that song? Does anybody know?

RACHEL: I’ll have to do a quick Google.

(Don Henley – The Heart of the Matter.)

DAPHNE: I’ve heard it, but it’s not coming to my mind.

NATALIE: All the people listening are now shouting the name while they are driving. I have
no idea.

RACHEL: I wish we could hear you.

NATALIE: Anyway, before we get started on our topic, I wanted to let you know that the
sisterhood group, it’s called the Flying Free Sisterhood Education and Support Group, is
opening back up again at the end of September. That’s just in a few weeks. You can hop
on the waiting list by going to You know what I’ve been hearing from
people more and more, and I think it’s because over the course of several years there are
so many resources that I’ve put out there, the podcast and all, that we’re going to hit 100
episodes by the end of this year. That’s a lot.


NATALIE: There’s the podcast. There’s tons of articles on the Flying Free website. I’m
starting to do these Monday morning things where I connect with people on Facebook
and then I post it on YouTube. So, there’s all these resources out there and a lot of people
are thinking, “Gee, I’m getting a lot of really good stuff. Why do I need to join the Flying
Free Sisterhood? It’s probably just going to be all this good stuff packaged up with a bow
on it. I don’t really want to pay for that.” But do you know what I’m hearing from people
that think that prior to joining the sisterhood, and then they join the Sisterhood? They
are coming back to me and saying, “I had no idea that there was so much more that was
offered within that group. It’s incredible, and it’s life changing.” So, I’m offering that out to
you who are getting a lot of benefit from the podcast, the articles, and the YouTube
videos. It’s very different on the outside, and it’s everything that I can offer you for those
of you who cannot afford to be in the Sisterhood. But if you can afford to pay $25 a
month there is so much more rich material inside the Sisterhood that is built up in a
vault over the years, plus new stuff that is being produced every single month for your
benefit. Also, the other aspect of it is that you get to have community with other people
who are just like you. The other thing is that you get access to me. You can process what
you are personally going through with me in the forum and through coaching that I do
every single week. I get a lot of emails from people asking for help and telling me their
stories. I love that and I want to help everyone, but I do have to constrain myself to the
women that are in that Sisterhood group. I give all of myself to those women. If you want
extra help and you need that systematic process of going from crawling to flying, from
the caterpillar stage to the butterfly stage, I would really encourage you to try out the
Flying Free Sisterhood. A lot of women start off with one month, and then they come
back and sign up for a whole year because they say, “This is exactly what I need, I’m
committed to this, and I’m going to go through this whole program.” So that said, I want
to reintroduce you to Daphne. I think I’m going to have her tell us in her own words –
who is Daphne?

DAPHNE: Hey y’all. That might give you a first clue – I’m from Texas. Of course, I must
lead with that. I have been in the Flying Free Sisterhood for about a year and a half now
and have been divorced for about a year from an emotionally and spiritually abusive
man, a Christian man. So, the group has given me a lot of support during this time. I am
also a legal aide attorney. That’s what I do professionally. Anything else you think is
helpful for folks to know?

NATALIE: Just that if they want to hear you and I dialoguing in the past, we went to a
conference last fall that was put on by the Southern Baptist Convention, correct?

DAPHNE: Yeah, that’s right. We did that episode back in October.

NATALIE: Yeah. Daphne and I got to see each other. It was super fun. We’ve seen each
other a few times now in different places and conferences, but they are always down in
Texas. But then it gives me a chance to leave Minnesota and go stay somewhere warm.
Anyway, we saw each other there and hung out. We took in the conference and then we
had a lot of thoughts about it. So, we recorded a podcast episode. I don’t even
remember the number of that episode…

DAPHNE: It was a bonus episode, I think.

NATALIE: That’s right, it was a bonus episode.

DAPHNE: Bonus Episode 1 maybe?

NATALIE: Yeah, I think we’ve only had two bonus episodes, so it shouldn’t be too hard
to find. Anyway, you can go check that out if you want to.

DAPHNE: I also share more of my story with Natalie in a butterfly story in the private
Sisterhood group, so if anyone is listening to the podcast who is in the group now and
new to it, you can go back if you are interested and listen to that. Or if you are
considering joining the group that is another thing – not just me – but hearing the
stories of so many other women who have walked similar paths.

NATALIE: That’s right. With the podcast, we do these little survivor interviews. They are
very short. But the butterfly interviews (they’re not interviews but just stories that are
within the Sisterhood) are much more. You get more of a deeper picture of what goes
on inside of their lives and more of an idea of how they were able to extricate
themselves from the relationship, which I think is encouraging and important to
understand if you are looking and thinking about what your options are moving
forward. To be able to hear what other people have gone through and that they have
survived and thrived going through the same things that you are going through. But
today we want to talk about forgiveness. I think this is a really…I think there is going to
be a lot of things to say on this subject because we are women of faith, so forgiveness
is a big deal for us, right? Forgiveness is a big deal because we may have spent years
and years – decades even – dealing with someone who has repetitively hurt us and
done destruction to our spiritual lives, our emotional lives, and sometimes our physical
bodies. So, forgiveness is like, “Forgive? What are you talking about? I can forgive
someone who maybe does one nasty thing, but to forgive years and years of
unrepentant sin, how in the world? What does that even look like? What does it involve?
Is it even possible?” I know you said, Daphne, that you had come up with a whole bunch
of ideas of what forgiveness is not. Maybe we could start there. Do you want to share?

DAPHNE: Yeah. To start off, one thing that has been super important for me in my
journey of healing and growing as a person is having precise definitions for things that
are just spouted off as rhetoric. I had always been told and had internalized the idea
that I need to forgive. I hadn’t thought a whole lot about what that means, but I had
internalized some things about what I felt like that means. One of the things I felt it
meant before was that it was something someone had to request of me, and it was
something I did for them. So, it came down to someone demanding that and then I could
think about forgiveness. But it wasn’t something I necessarily thought of outside that

NATALIE: Okay, so someone would have to ask you for forgiveness for a specific thing that
they had done to you, and then you would decide from there if you were going to forgive
them or not?

DAPHNE: Yeah, that’s kind of the framework that I grew up with. Someone wrongs you.
They ask for forgiveness, and then you are required to give that to them. But in thinking
about that, it doesn’t really tell you what forgiveness is. It seems like forgiveness is some
sort of restoring of the relationship, but that’s not what it is when it comes down to it. The
definition I have found helpful for forgiveness is…One part is making the decision to
deliberately get rid of your negative feelings towards someone who has wronged you for
the purpose of healing and moving forward. But sometimes that definition is hard for me
too because we can’t always really control our feelings. So kind of a second part of the
definition that I’ve come up with that has been helpful for me is committing to not letting
those transgressions against me hinder me from moving forward in life and committing to
not having those things control my actions and thoughts moving forward.

RACHEL: Uh-huh.

NATALIE: I was going to say, that’s the big question on our minds. How in the world do you
do that?

RACHEL: Right. It goes even further than that – committing not to do the same back to
them. Releasing the debt that they essentially owe you because of the way they have
treated you. Releasing that to God, allowing Him to be the one who applies vengeance. It
says in the Bible, “’Vengeance is mine. I will repay,’ says the Lord.” Not taking vengeance
upon yourself is an act of forgiveness.

NATALIE: Yes, because you want justice so badly.

RACHEL: Exactly! The justice – we all crave that! We have a desire for justice. We can’t go
seek that for ourselves by doing that – the way that we’ve been treated – back to them. It
doesn’t work like that.

NATALIE: I think I’ve said this elsewhere, but for me I’ve felt like with the people in my life
that I’ve had to forgive…Sometimes I feel like forgiveness kind of ebbs and flows. But I’ve
had to let them off the hook for that justice. What I’ve said in the past is, “Let them off the
hook, but then put them on God’s hook.” The only problem with that is that if you are also
struggling with: is there a God? Is God for me? Is He going to keep them on the hook or is
He just going to let them off the hook too? The Bible says that God forgives too, so does
that mean that anybody can do whatever they want to do to anybody else and then God
just forgives everybody, so it’s no big deal? I think a lot of us think that way and then think
that justice really is up to me, and I have to create that justice for myself. When you start
going down that rabbit trail, at least for me, that’s when I lose my peace. That’s when I lose
my joy. I miss out on feeling good about my life. I got to the place where I was just so sick
of feeling icky about my life and all the people in it. I just wanted to be happy.

RACHEL: Allowing those feelings of unforgiveness to control you means that your ex-husband
is still controlling you in a way. You’ve lived like that long enough. Forgiveness is an act of
trusting God.

NATALIE: Yeah. So, Daphne, what do you think about that? I’m curious to know if you’ve
come to the place where you’re able to forgive your ex or other people in your life who
have hurt you?

DAPHNE: Yeah, I think so. Going back to one thing you said, when you were focused on
him, you were feeling bad. I think that is one of the things to consider when we’re thinking
about do we need to forgive? Should we forgive? What’s up with that? I feel like a lot of
times in these situations people are being pressured to forgive even by someone they are
or were in a relationship with, by the church, or by their family. People are pressured to
forgive as if that means some type of restoration of a relationship or some type of
willingness to communicate or be involved with that person. But what does that do for us
in terms of how we’re doing at dealing with the hurt? What I’ve come to is a place of
looking at forgiveness as something that is for me. It involves another person or another
group of people to the extent that they did something wrong against me. But forgiveness
is really me saying, “That can’t control me moving forward.” It’s not even about justice for
me because I feel if I say, “Hey, I’m going to forgive them so that God can give them justice,”
then it is still about them, and it’s not about me and my commitment to move forward in
my life. That’s where I’ve come to. I know a lot of people struggle with faith and what does
that look like coming from these situations. Even thinking about are we commanded to
forgive? What is that whole thing? What is that supposed to look like? Ultimately, I think
that (and Bob Hamp talked about this in a video a few years ago that he released about
forgiveness where scripture is talking about how if we don’t forgive then God won’t forgive
us) it depends on how we think about it. You talked about this picture of God as an abuser
that a lot of us take on, which is that if we don’t do this then He is going to withhold His
love from us. But if we change that view to be that if we don’t forgive others, we are not
enabled to experience forgiveness and healing for ourselves that is how I see that dynamic
working. That works better with my new picture of faith and who God is now.

RACHEL: That’s good. Building on what you said there, Daphne, in that Bob Hamp video,
(that’s a great video for people to watch – I wonder if we could link to it in the show notes)
he talked about how you can’t forgive what you don’t recognize. So, healing from the
trauma you’ve been through in your marriage means a continual acknowledgment of
what’s been done to you, and only then can you forgive that. You can’t forgive what you
don’t see happened. So, if my husband hurt me over 14 years, and it was subtle. It was like
a subtle wearing down of who I am and all the things I had to offer him. He was wearing
away at me self-worth. He was wearing away at my personhood. I must be able to see that
effect and how it has played out in my life before I can do the hard act of forgiving him for
what he did. That’s hard. That’s an active spiritual pursuit to be able to release him to God
for justice. Forgiveness is not just a one-time act is my point here. You must keep pursuing
it over time. I’m still finding ways that I have to forgive my ex-husband.

NATALIE: That was something I was going to ask you guys. Is there ever a point where you
felt like you had really released him and you could move on, or do you still kind of work on
that here and there?

DAPHNE: I definitely think it is a process because there are different things that come up –
different circumstances in life that come up – that show, “I thought I was going to have this
at this point. I had an expectation that my life would look like this, and it doesn’t because of
this same situation.” So, it keeps coming up. When I think about forgiveness, there’s
another thing that I don’t think it looks like. I don’t think it looks like you won’t continue to
be hurt or have disappointment. I think it means that we’re making the deliberate decision
to not allow that to control us, whether it’s controlling our thought patterns or our
behaviors. What does it look like when those things come up? I think it’s a deliberate
intentional choice. An example of that is that I just moved, so I’m in an apartment by
myself. A couple of years ago I wouldn’t have imagined that would be my situation. But it is
what it is; that is what my reality now. Is that disappointing? Of course, but do I allow that to
control my thought patterns? Am I going to spiral now into what could have been, what
should have been, and how it was all his fault? Or am I going to embrace what my life is
now and move forward in healthy ways? I think that’s what forgiveness, that kind of
continual forgiveness, looks like – continually making the choice to handle that in a healthy
way. It’s not not being hurt. I think many times forgiveness is used as a weapon against
people who are hurt…

RACHEL: Yes, yes.

DAPHNE: …especially in the church. It’s like clearly you haven’t forgiven! You’re still hurt!
But no, that’s two different things. You can still be hurt and at the same time forgive and at
the same time choose to not be in a relationship. All those things can be true at the same


RACHEL: Yes! Forgiveness is not reconciliation. I think that’s what you just said there. That
is so misrepresented in Christian culture a lot of times. “If you’ve forgiven, that means that
you’ve returned to relationship the way it was. You’re not remembering what’s been done
to you.” Etcetera.

NATALIE: You give them a blank slate, a clean whiteboard. You can write your crappy
graffiti on the whiteboard all over again because we’re going to forget that you just did that.

RACHEL: This message was so prevalent in my mind when I was married before that every
single time…This is why I couldn’t…I didn’t see a pattern. I couldn’t look back and say, “This
happened before,” because I would feel guilty that I remembered what he had done to me
before. It took me 14 years and some education to finally know what was really gong on. I
would feel so guilty about not forgiving him. He would even stonewall me for three days
when I knew that he had really done something wrong. All he had to do was ignore me for
long enough, and then I would feel bad and feel like I needed to forgive him. These are all
distorted ideas of forgiveness.

NATALIE: It puts the perpetrator in the victim role…

RACHEL: Oh yeah!

NATALIE: …because by your not forgiving them now they are a victim of your

RACHEL: Right.

NATALIE: It’s such a brain (I was going to use a swear word there.)

RACHEL: Yeah, and if you know anything about narcissism, that’s like…Being a victim is how
they live their lives and who they want to be. They want to be a victim because that means
they get to control you. They get to have you feel bad for them. That means that you do
what they want you to do.

NATALIE: Okay, so Daphne, are there any other things that you had that forgiveness is not?

DAPHNE: I touched on this a little already, but I think it’s important we talk more about the
idea that because you forgive someone…That is a totally separate question from whether
the relationship can or should be restored. I think a lot of people struggle. I struggled with
that idea. I was hesitant to forgive because I felt like that would say something like maybe I
was ready to be in relationship or have other conversations that I wasn’t. But when I
disconnected those two ideas of forgiveness and continued relationship that freed me up
to heal myself. I want to say to give permission (I can’t give permission to anyone for
anything) but I want people to feel free to consider the option that you don’t have to
continue in relationship with someone that has continued to hurt you. That is a decision
you can make, and you can forgive because forgiveness for someone doesn’t mean that
there won’t be consequences that they might experience in their lives because of loss of
relationship with us. Again, that isn’t like they need to feel this pain. It’s focusing on what do
I need to do to keep myself healthy. I know I’ve been in this place where whatever hurt or
bitterness, like you said, Natalie, has been making me not feel good, not be healthy. What
do I need to do to get to a good place? One is acknowledging that pain and that hurt,
committing to moving forward, but also examining your life for areas where you can
prevent some of that. That’s where boundaries come in.

RACHEL: Yes. Being self-controlled instead of being controlled by other people. Choosing
what you will and will not allow, what kind of behavior you will and will not tolerate in your
life. If someone is hurting you, you are allowed to make the decision to protect yourself.
You do not have to continue that just because you are married to them. In fact, if you are
married to them, that increases their responsibility and accountability for hurting you even
more because they promised when they married you that they would protect you, that
they would be alongside you, and that they would cherish you. If they are continually
breaking that vow, then that is something to think about.

NATALIE: Right. In the Flying Higher group, which is a group that I’m doing – and you guys
are both in that, right?


NATALIE: It’s for divorced women. We just did a lesson on unconditional love. I think this
goes along with that because there is a lot of confusion about what unconditional love is.
I’ve been very confused about that. Unconditional love and forgiveness…I mean think about
it. Forgiveness is really an act of love, right? An act of unconditional love.

RACHEL: Yes. It is.

NATALIE: We think we believe that unconditional love means the same thing that
forgiveness means. It means that I am giving you carte blanche to do whatever you want to
do to me, and I will just “love” you. What does loving someone unconditionally mean? It
means letting them run all over you. It means still giving them dinner, doing their laundry,
giving them sex, and saying, “I love you unconditionally. You can beat me up. You can call
me names. I’m just going to love on you like crazy.” That’s absolutely insanity. That is not
unconditional love at all. In trying to parse out what the difference is between what
unconditional love is, one of the breakthroughs I recently had is that I am estranged from
my family of origin. One of the looping thoughts I kept having every time I would think
about them is that they don’t care. They don’t love me, and they don’t care. I was talking
about this with a coach, and she helped me to see. She said, “What could you think instead
of they don’t care?” because the result in my life was just misery. I didn’t want to feel
miserable about that anymore. I wanted to feel unconditional love for my family members
even though we had no contact with each other. I believed that it was possible to feel that
unconditional love because our feelings are something that we have. It’s not something
other people have to feel. We have our own universe, and we feel our own feelings within
that universe. I wanted to feel love for them, and I wanted to feel connected to them even
though we were not connected physically. The thought that she helped me come up with
whenever my brain says, “They don’t care,” is, “I care.” That has been transformative for me.
My focus is not on them and what they are doing and offering the world, but rather back
on me again (because I can only change me) and it’s about me. And I do care. So, whenever
my brain says, “They don’t care,” and I start thinking about the things they did that hurt me,
I stop and think, “But I care. I care about them.” I not only care about them, but
unconditional love means we have unconditional love for ourselves so that when we make
mistakes we still can hold space for ourselves, love ourselves, take care of ourselves, to
grow and develop into the person that we are meant to be to our full potential, and be as
happy as we possibly can be in a world where all the other humans are doing whatever
they want to do even though they are not things that make us feel comfortable.

RACHEL: That is so good. The way it has been helpful for me to think about unconditional
love is wanting the best for someone no matter what. Sometimes the best for someone
means not allowing the to hurt me anymore because if I am continually providing an
opportunity for them to sin against me, that’s not good for them or me. It can be allowing
someone to face the consequences to reap what they have sown. It can be really loving for
them to face the consequences of their own behavior. Filing for divorce from my husband,
as crazy as it sounds, was an act of love because I love him too much to allow him to
continue treating me in the ways that he has been treating me any longer. That isn’t good
for him, and it’s not good for me.

NATALIE: It sets such a loving example to everyone around you (even though they might
not see it as loving.) It shows the world that there are consequences for wrong behavior
and that we all have our own personal power, that we can all take the responsibility that
God has given to us which is simply to take care of ourselves and to offer all of our
potential into the world, and to let go of control of all the other people including the people
that we are closest to because they get to make their own choices for their own lives.
When they make those choices, there are going to be natural consequences to that.


DAPHNE: Yes. I find it funny how a lot of these terms, like forgiveness and unconditional
love, are weaponized and thrown out to make people feel like they must relate to someone
else in a certain type of way. I feel like I’m in a place where I’m going back to the beginning
and asking why do I need to do this? Why do I feel it’s important to me to have
unconditional love? What is that? Is that even a thing? What are people doing when they
are saying that and using those terms? One of you was saying is unconditional love now a
license for you to treat me however you want because I can’t put conditions on our
interactions. So, I’m backing up and looking at things from a bird’s eye view of what does
this mean and is this important? I think when you are talking about forgiveness, I want
people to feel the freedom to ask the questions of what does this mean? What does this
look like? I feel like, especially in the church, we are told what things mean and what things
look like and we never question them. We’re never allowed to question them. When you
start dipping your toe into the water of thinking about things differently, you can feel guilt
and shame thinking, “Am I just not wanting to forgive? Am I not wanting to be like Jesus?” I
want to remind people that there are plenty of Bible believing, seminary educated
theologians who believe different things.


DAPHNE: So it’s okay to step out and ask questions about what you’ve always believed,
especially when you see that the fruit of what you are believing in your life is bitterness,
pain, and physical ailments. When that is the fruit of the beliefs in your life, it’s okay to step
back and say, “I don’t think this is right.”

RACHEL: Right.

NATALIE: That’s such a good point, and I don’t think that our religious environments
necessarily offer that space for people to wrestle with those kinds of things. They say, “No,
this is the way it is. This is how we say it is. You either buy into it and you can be part of our
club; but if you are going to wrestle with it, if you are going to read authors that are outside
of our white-listed authors, then begone with you because you are just a rebel.” Whatever.

DAPHNE: Absolutely. It goes back to what is their goal in doing that. Is it control? Another
thing is that in general we just don’t deal with emotions well…

RACHEL: In the church?

DAPHNE: …in society. In the church, but in society at large either. We’re not really taught
emotional intelligence, especially in the church. The scripture says, “The heart is deceitful,”
so that means emotions are bad. So if you are feeling angry or sad, stop it.

RACHEL: Yep. That’s about it.

DAPHNE: Exactly. Stop it because God is good. But man, I imagine a theology where God
can handle us being sad and disappointed, you know?

RACHEL: Yep, almost like He created us like that, with a capacity for those emotions.

DAPHNE: Right.

NATALIE: Okay. Well, ladies, did we solve this problem for the whole world now? Is this like
the definitive guide on forgiveness? I don’t think so. But…

DAPHNE: I thought so. I thought we did a great job and that was it.

NATALIE: I think this gave a lot of food for thought for people because here’s the thing. If
you’re listening, you are going to have to go and wrestle with all this stuff on your own. This
is not easy stuff, and it’s not like this overnight epiphany. It could be. There could be some
major breakthroughs in your life especially if you have already done some thinking about
this. Someone could have said something in today’s episode, and the lightbulb goes on,
and then it’s all clear for you. I think that happens; but I think more often, it’s part of a
process. The light goes on not suddenly, but it slowly gets brighter and brighter, and you
slowly start to feel yourself releasing that burden of the person who hurt you. They are not
a burden, but the pain that they have caused you is a huge burden that you carry around.
Here’s the thing about other people that hurt us. They move on with their lives and they
don’t care. They aren’t thinking at all about the devastation that they’ve left behind. We
want to think if they could just get it and just see it then I could feel so much better and be
able to forgive them. If they would just say, “I’m sorry,” instead of “I’m sorry, but…” If they
could articulate all the things that they did to me, then I could forgive them and move on.
But no. Because if we’re depending on them to understand us, to have a meeting of the
minds…. First, that is never going to happen. Second, we’re giving all the power for our well
being into the hands of another person, and that is the opposite of what we want to be
doing as we are getting our badass on and healing and becoming adult women who have a
lot to offer to this world.

DAPHNE: I think just to summarize where I am with forgiveness in general, it’s a tool than
can help us learn to cope with the difficulty of life in a healthy way – in a way where we’re in
a position to bring our full selves and gifts to the world to benefit others.

RACHEL: One final thought I want to add is that if forgiveness feels overwhelming, that’s
okay. I would encourage women to release that overwhelmed feeling that feels
insurmountable to the LORD and ask Him to help us to forgive. This is something I’ve had
to practice because the hurt is so deep. But I want to testify to what He has done in my life.
Last fall I got married – remarried. The day before I got married my ex-mother-in-law sent
me a nasty text message. I was so hurt. I was sitting there crying. I had been having such a
great day. I was excited. I didn’t know what to do. I was instantly taken back to this place
where I was so filled with shame and not being good enough and all that. But I felt the
sudden clarity of what I needed to do. I sent her a text message back saying that I loved
her and that was it. Then I blocked her so she couldn’t respond, and I didn’t have to hear
from her again.

NATALIE: I love it.

RACHEL: That was something that I never thought I would have been able to do. That’s the
power of the Holy Spirit when you allow Him to work in your life and you surrender that
pain and ask for His help to do what we’ve been called to do as Christians, which is to
forgive. But it’s not just a simple thing that we do once. It’s an ongoing process like we have
talked about. All the glory to God for that empowerment to be able to do that.

NATALIE: That’s beautiful because in that moment love was spilling out of you for three
people. It was spilling out of you for yourself. It was spilling out of you for that woman right
where she is at in her life. And it was spilling out of you for God who gave you power to do
that. I think that’s a perfect way to end this whole episode with that story. I do want to say
one more thing that has nothing to do with forgiveness. It has to do with this podcast and
getting it into the eardrums of other women. I’ve been doing this for a year and a half now.
I didn’t realize this because I am not a tech person, but I’ve become aware that when
people leave ratings and reviews on iTunes, iTunes apparently looks at that and realizes
that people like this podcast. If these people like it, then maybe more people will like it.
Then they start pushing it to people’s podcast feeds as “If you like this one, you might like
this one.” So one of the ways you can help other women become aware that this podcast is
available to them is by going to iTunes, finding the Flying Free podcast on either your
phone app or online, and leave a rating and review letting people know what you think.
We read those. We love reading them because they are very encouraging and give us
feedback as far as what it is about this podcast that you like. It helps us rally and decide we
want to give people more of this because this is what they are enjoying, and this is what
they are benefiting from. So, give us your feedback please. You can leave a rating and
review anonymously. You can pick any name you want. You don’t have to use your own
name. I know some people are sensitive about that. Anyway, we would appreciate that. We
always feature someone’s review on the website when we post a new podcast. That’s fun
too. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you, Daphne and Rachel, for joining me today.
That’s it. Until next time, fly free!

Click to view Bob Hamp’s talk on Forgiveness mentioned in this episode.


  1. kim wise

    What is flying higher? I also just went through divorce.

      • Nancy Zuniga

        Would it be smart to joint Flying Free first even if you are divorced or is it okay to just join Flying Higher from the start?

        • Natalie Hoffman

          I think it kind of depends on what you’re looking for. If you’re still in healing mode I’m trying to figure out what just happened in your life, I would recommend Flying free. There are plenty of divorced women in there. But if you feel like you’ve really processed most of what happened in your relationship and you just want to focus on your future, then I would recommend Flying Higher.

  2. J

    I heard you say that Flying Free is opening up soon. What about Flying Higher? I’m divorced and interested in Flying Higher.


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